Clearing the PR Pollution that Clouds Climate Science

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Stern Responses Show Economics as a Form of Brain Damage

By spending less on curbing CO2 now, according to some economists, we will be richer in the future and thereby better able to pay for mitigating climate change then. Spending on climate abatement must be weighed against other social costs, they say.

What's next?

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Are they from a different planet?

From the link: "...Economists have looked at the question for years and concluded that a gradual approach inflicts the lowest cost on society..." Is that connected to the oil companies saying they can't change too quickly or their investors will be scared off? Funny, this argument is not accepted when rightwing politicians like Ralph Klein make deep and sudden cuts to government.

I'd say that argument might apply to some economic areas such as oil; if Alberta had a moratorium on further oilsands development, wouldn't the oil in the ground be much more valuable in the future? It would do no harm to leave it there, like savings in the bank.

But for the environment, the longer we continue to emit GHGs, the worse it will get and the more difficult and expensive it will be to fix. And in the future, when the environment is breaking down, be sure that most of us will not be richer than we are today; we will have fewer resources and less room to maneuver. Look at how far along we would be if the federal government had put in strong regulations 10 years ago.

If you want a real economic parallel for where we are at, look at the disappearance of the buffalo; people could see it coming, but several factors worked to make the end come even faster than expected; and the result was mass starvation and societal breakdown.

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Intolerance

and narrowmindedness seem to be elements of Ross' strategy. He dismisses any one or any argument by primitive name calling, just to avoid understanding the opposite point of view or accepting that such view can be valid.

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Economic Anomaly & Climatology

Do you ever hear climatologists talk about planned obsolescence? Do you ever hear economists talk about how much consumers lose on depreciation of automobiles? Are these related issues if planned obsolescence produces unnecessary manufacturing and pollution which can affect the climate? http://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic.pbs?t=28529 psik

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Not true

Oh, so some economists say silly stuff and that means they are all the same? Check out the Pigou Club members, many are economists (even nobel prize winning).

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Pseudo-science

Economics is definitely a useful and worthwhile discipline, but it's basically a pseudo-science. If we can't trust climatologists to forecast the weather, how much less can we trust economists to forecast the economic implications? I wonder how economic models would handle events like WWII...

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Exactly

we cannot forecast the wheather, and certainly not the climate. One thing professional economists usually knows is how to use statistical methods, which is something Mann et al has proven is not the case for climatologists.

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Weather and climate

Weather and climate prediction are separate issues entirely so to use one to illustrate the science of the other is moot. Have a look here for an explanation of the difference between weather, climate and predictablity. Whether you decide to read it or not is definitely unpredictable.

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Wrong again Johan

J I K, have you actually read the NAS report? If you had you would not keep on making these erroneous statements.

As for predicting the weather, I was just watching the Weather Channel and they said we were in for a really bad spell of weather. They were exactly right, one of the worst spells of weather I have seen in a long time.

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Have you read

the Wegman testimony and subsequent response to Stupak's questions? Manns' methodology is basically made fun of.

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So sick of this red herring

Seriously, I am almost getting sick of saying it. LOOK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png How many studies and certainties is it going to take? Get over the hockey stick study for god's sake. It was one study 7 bloody years ago. And look at the graph above, there have been all sorts of studies that have confirmed the hypothesis. Get your heads out of your asses and smell the C02.....

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About the climate cover-up

About the climate cover-up

Democracy is utterly dependant upon an electorate that is accurately informed. In promoting climate change denial (and often denying their responsibility for doing so) industry has done more than endanger the environment. It has undermined democracy.

There is a vast difference between putting forth a point of view, honestly held, and intentionally sowing the seeds of confusion. Free speech does not include the right to deceive. Deception is not a point of view. And the right to disagree does not include a right to intentionally subvert the public awareness.

Although all public relations professionals are bound by a duty to not knowingly mislead the public, some have executed comprehensive campaigns of misinformation on behalf of industry clients on issues ranging from tobacco and asbestos to seat belts.

Lately, these fringe players have turned their efforts to creating confusion about climate change. This PR campaign could not be accomplished without the compliance of media as well as the assent and participation of leaders in government and business.

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