"Big Oil produces oil. We consume it. Statistically, we as individuals are the biggest polluters."

Evidence?

"Supports my contention that this lawsuit is simply about extorting money from profitable businesses."

In other words, big businesses are rich, therefore any effort to get big businesses to pay up is "extortion". Conclusion: big businesses can never be wrong!

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Frank Bi, http://globaldumbing.tk

"Hmmm. Big Oil produces oil. We consume it. Statistically, we as individuals are the biggest polluters."

Ummm, the tar sands are the single biggest polluter in Canada, if not worldwide.

The biggest emissions of C02 are not from the production of oil, but from the consumption of oil. Statistically, we who use oil and oil products, are the largest emitters of C02.

Again, where's your evidence?

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Frank Bi, http://globaldumbing.tk

Incredibly, Frank seems to think oil production is a net consumer of energy.

"Globaldumbing", indeed.

"The biggest emissions of C02 are not from the production of oil, but from the consumption of oil." -- Paul S/G

I still don't see any facts forthcoming to support this claim. And rob isn't providing any facts either.

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Besides, this claim is a red herring anyway. Oil consumers aren't the ones funding astroturf groups. Oil consumers aren't the ones giving money to the Heartland Institute to hold their advertorializing "scientific" "conference". Oil consumers aren't the ones putting crappy ads on TV promoting bogus "science".

It's oil producers like ExxonMobil who are doing these things. It's oil producers who are going out of their way to deceive the public. All this stuff is well-documented, and well-known... too bad for ya deniers.

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By the way Paul, it's CO2 -- carbon(C) di(2)-oxide(O), not C-zero-two. But since when did a denialist need to understand this basic stuff?

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Frank Bi, http://globaldumbing.tk

We will always require and use an increasing amount of fossil fuels because for most all application, there are no suitable substitutes with the requiste chemical and physical properties. For example, boats, planes, freight trains and trucks, emergency vehicles, mining, construction, agricultural machines, cars with spirit and muscle (i.e., V-8 engines), snowmobles, motorcycles, etc will always use hydrocarbon fuels because these fuels have high energy density. If you have a schemes to replace these fuels, I am quite sure the engineers who design engines would be happy to learn of it.

Other heavy hitters that will always use fossil fuels are lime and cement kilns, all plants making ceramics, metal smelters, foundries and metal casting plants, all food processing and distribution, space and water heating especially in countries with cold winter climates, cooking and baking, etc.

Frank, you are suffering from such severe carbon dioxide
anoxia your brain no longer functions properly.

Consider this: No liquid fossil fuels, no pro sports.

I am surprised that you have such a low opinion of human ingenuity, Mr Pierce. The fact of the matter is that fossil fuels are a finite resource, and whether or not AGW were an issue, sooner or later we would HAVE to come up with an alternative. Following your logic that there is no substitute and we will use more and more all the time, it will run out even faster. You've heard of "peak oil"?

If we assume that we can carry on as usual we'll be in for the mother of all shocks when the last of the gas drips from the pump and the wheels of industry grind to a halt. For my part I have great optimism that we are capable of overcoming the problems that you cite as insurmountable. Otherwise we might as well party like it's 2200, because it will all be over soon.

Fern Mackenzie

Hello Fern!

Peak oil refers only to convential oil which can be recovered by primary, secondary and tertiary methods. It does no include unconvential oil or synthetic oil made from coal. Presently, there an estimated 1.5 trillion barrels that can be readily recovered by convential methods.

Unconvential oil refers to heavy oil, extra heavy oil, tar sands and oil shale. There are estimated 15 trillion barrels of oil equivalent in these reserves. For more info, GO: htpp://www.heavyoilinfo.com.

Synthetic oil can always be made from coal as Germany did on a massive scale during WW II. South Africa uses this same process to provide 40% of its liquid hydrocarbons. Google "SASOL"

BTW, I just happen to be one of those ingenious organic chemists. You give me earth, air, water and fire and I will turn limestone into all the high octane gasoline that you could ever possibly use.

HPJ said: "I just happen to be one of those ingenious organic chemists. You give me earth, air, water and fire and I will turn limestone into all the high octane gasoline that you could ever possibly us".

Harold, you do realize that hydrocarbons contain very high levels of chemical energy? The material you suggest may be used as starting materials contain either zero energy (limestone) or very little energy.

What mythical source of energy are you going to mix into your alchemist brew to convert zero energy into high energy gasoline?

Did you do your thesis on transformation of lead into gold by any chance?

You are a disgrace to organic chemists with the nonesense you put out on the internet.

Still recovering from your spanking over at RealClimate? (http://preview.tinyurl.com/2putxy)

Ian Forrester

The Four Elements will bring on the Four Horsemen . . .

Fern Mackenzie

Never heard of the Subway Series?
All 15 of them?
Of course the first one in 1889 should be called a Trolley Series...
Harold...before you say something, be sure you know what your talking about...