Didn't you say you are not in Canada? How would you know how Canadians think?

Mr. Holliday: VJ says you're not from around here, but you're clearly a student of Canadian politics. Still, if you know that "'urban, women, and Quebec' voters have never been the Tory base," then you must also also know that, with the exception of the now-maligned Mulroney years, the Tories are not usually in power, either. And if they would like to stay in power, they might want to start paying attention to the people who have kept them on the sidelines for most of the past century. In fact, prior to the Bali fiasco, Harper had been using a lot of energy trying to cuddle up to Quebec. It seems that wasting energy is becoming his government's hallmark.

As to the Alberta base, if Harper goes to the wall on the international stage, defending Canada's right to produce, use and sell oil at levels dangerous to the planet and he STILL loses points down home, that suggests to me that he's missing more than a few signals.

Like it or not, global warming is a very serious issue. Instead of looking at it on a country by country basis, we have to reverse emissions now. That cannot be done without the co-operation of the 4th largest emission based country (India) and the largest emmiter (and growing) in China. If China and India continue their growth rate, to reduce emissions by 10% over ten years, the rest of the world would have to average about 5% reduction per year, when most countries struggled at 5% over ten years. Quite simply, it cannot be done. That is 65% over ten years. China and India have no choice but to step up to the plate or world wide emissions will grow. The world does not need another Kyoto, which was a 15 year pact that only guaranteed emissions would continue to rise. Why sign onto another 15 year deal that only guarantees emissions will rise? Contrary to how people portray Kyoto, it never would have reduced emissions, so why sit on our collective butts for yet another 15 years and do something that while nice for a start, remains at large ineffectual with dealing with the real problem?

Harper is getting lower approvals for his childish tactics about "treating the undeveloped world like we treat Canadians", perhaps because we don't like the idea of 65% of us living like they do in India.

Thats what it means when Harper demands that India has the same emissions targets that we do here in Canada.

Measuring emissions on a per-capita basis would really sink Canada if we had to meet the per-capita emissions they have in India.

Whats next? - that Africa should be on par with Canada in trade deals? Or that the IMF should impose the same conditions for loans to Canada/Canadians that they have imposed on Africa"? [eg. - no social programs or health spending by nations who receive loans from the IMF or World Bank]

It is a poor stance to take to demand that India and China have the same emissions targets that Canada and the USA have - after all, we DID develop our economies on tha back of the global climate, and now it is our time to reduce [or at least stabilise] our GG emissions.

[where do these negative nellies at DeSmog come from? Are you trolls?]

we've had enough of the BOLDFACE for now? can somebody turn it off?